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Why do Germans only remember the Holocaust? Millions of Soviet prisoners of war and civilians were killed and tortured in the camps. Did the Germans and Austrian Germans forget about it?
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Что насчет русских людей, помнят ли они многочисленные преступления сталинской эпохи?
I never wrote anything like this. This is a misunderstanding.I'm not a schoolboy to go on field trips with my class.
That’s the problem, you walk through beautiful fields. That’s why the war crimes remain abstract. You can’t feel the what the victims felt, if you are missing the context.So, considering the fact that the places of the crimes are abstract, next to St. Petersburg you can walk through the fields and think - what beautiful fields! The fact is that there used to be dozens of villages in these places, and what happened to them? The Nazis burned it, often together with the inhabitants. Another example, near the Peterhof highway there was a beautiful English palace, today if you come to that place you will see two stones and a heap of rubble.
Of course you can criticize the Movie or mini serial for its naiveté. But it was made for a German audience in a time when most surviving victims and most culprits were already dead. You know, we have an average life expectancy of about 80 years more or less. The serial was displayed in 2013. 70 years after. Surviving victims or perpetrators were in their 90ies. Just yesterday began a trial on a Sachsenhausen-SS-oficial, who is now 100 years old), last week began a trial on a Stutthof-secretary, who worked as an 18-year-old-woman there. She is now 96. These people survived 20 years of the average life expectancy in Germany.As for the film "Our Mothers and Fathers" - it is always surprising how modern Germans see their ancestors as confused boys who were simply sent to the wrong place.
Well, I don‘t know why you act offended.Well, your right. Drink your Bavarian beer and enjoy yourself. What many of you don't know about history is a link to the rise in popularity of the marginal, right-wing AFD party. Thank you for your answer. The answers on this site only confirm my opinion about the Germans.
I never wrote anything like this. This is a misunderstanding.
That’s the problem, you walk through beautiful fields. That’s why the war crimes remain abstract. You can’t feel the what the victims felt, if you are missing the context.
Of course you can criticize the Movie or mini serial for its naiveté. But it was made for a German audience in a time when most surviving victims and most culprits were already dead. You know, we have an average life expectancy of about 80 years more or less. The serial was displayed in 2013. 70 years after. Surviving victims or perpetrators were in their 90ies. Just yesterday began a trial on a Sachsenhausen-SS-oficial, who is now 100 years old), last week began a trial on a Stutthof-secretary, who worked as an 18-year-old-woman there. She is now 96. These people survived 20 years of the average life expectancy in Germany.
In German we say: „Man muss die Leute abholen, wo sie stehen“ - you have to pick up people where they are. That means, if you want to tell them something about Nazi war crimes, you can show them like in 1950-Hollywood-movies as sadists, who want to kill, kill, kill. Or you show them, as was they were: ordinary men and women, which developed themselves into murderers. If you want to tell the people in a movie something about the development of ordinary men (and women) to murderers, you can‘t show the sadist SS-beasts as in older Hollywood- or Stalin era-movies.
Of course there many nazis in the ranks of the Wehrmacht. But not everyone who came into the situation, when he murdered - and I speak of murder, not killing within fighting - was a convinced Nazi. The lesson we have to learn is, how to prevent going the steps which lead into war crimes. And one lesson is, that you don‘t need to be ideologically stable racist to commit racist atrocities.
Well, I don‘t know why you act offended.
I will tell you something. My parents were born during the war. They were three and five years old, when the war was over. Are they guilty? I Can tell you, that my grandfathers were not in the war. The father of my mother was an war invalid of the WWI, in the lädt days of the war he came to the so called Volkssturm (old men and young boys and girls), the other one was farmer. The oldest brother of my father was in the Soviet Union. He came back, he wasn‘t a POW (at least not in the SU). He told one time something. He talked about atrocities in the back of the front. He told my grandparents, that another farmer of the same village was in the troops who were committing atrocities in the back of the front. We don‘t know, if my uncle committed any atrocities. I fear, he did. But I don’t know.
So, my parents were young child’s during the war. Are they guilty for German war atrocities? I was born 32 years after the war. Am I guilty for German war atrocities?
I already told you, that the FRG overtook the legal succession of the Third Reich. But you can‘t declare every German individual guilty.
I do understand, that you, loosing half of your family, don‘t like Germany very much, but please get along with that, that the average German living today didn‘t commit any war crimes and that guilt is individual not collective.
Most of my acquaintances are aware of the crimes of Stalinism, about the gulag, barrage detachments, hunger and other things. To justify Stalinism and the actions of the NKVD and the KGB, in my opinion, is a crime. But if you want to hurt me or the Russians with your question, please .. continue .. Educated and adequate Russians know this part of their history very well. I can even help you remember other atrocities of the USSR. Is this what you want? We can recall the attack on Finland in 1939, the forcible annexation of the Baltic countries in 1940, the partition of Poland in 1939, the Holodomor in Ukraine in the 1930s. Enough? This thread discusses something else. If you have any questions, you are always welcome
You are probably right, this is more my personal problem. It's just that when I see footage of the Germans kneeling down, arranging memorials to Jewish victims, I always remember my killed relatives and also the bones of Soviet soldiers who are still quite numerous in the forests and fields near St. Petersburg, which our search group periodically digs up and tries to identify. You are right, I do not like Germany and the Germans, and it will probably be easier for me to imagine that you do not exist at all. What makes me happy is that even century-old Nazi criminals will face trial and die in a prison cell.
This site is unpolitical, but I guess you wont find many users of this forum voting for any right-wing party. I've been to St. Petersburg in 2016 for a week. Besides visiting sights like the Eremitage, Newski Prospekt or Peter and Paul Fortress, of course I went to the Museum of the Siege of Leningrad. I took a friend who was with me in Petersburg there too. He's a tiler and not so deeply interested in history. We both knew about the siege, but he didn't realise how long and cruel it was before being to that museum.What many of you don't know about history is a link to the rise in popularity of the marginal, right-wing AFD party. Thank you for your answer. The answers on this site only confirm my opinion about the Germans.
Not nice designs. With very few exceptions, what can today's German people do for the crimes of the Nazi criminals? Today's Germany is completely different from that of 1933 to 1945. In Germany, the change has succeeded. 30 years ago there was the nice action, I was there too, Hamburg helps Petersburg. That alone is proof that times have changed in Germany.
France and Germany have shown how international reconciliation works. Both nations are close friends today.
French people would see this totally different, than you.
Of course it is right, that France suffered less under German control, than the Eastern European occupied territories, that`s because Nazi Germany waged a racistic war of extermination in Eastern Europe, especially against Slavic Populations. In Western Europe Nazi Germany "just" waged a cleptocratic war, without the goal of extermination. Nevertheless, there were massacres in Greece, Italy (after Mussolinis fall) and France, too. For Jews it didn't make a difference, where they were found by German authorities.
i can´t believe that it is easy in France to forgive and to forget Oradour-sur-Glane.It is easy to forgive and forget
Pardon me?France (...)in fact did not take part in the Second World War.
French Resistance - Wikipediasecondly you didn’t put up resistance
Category:Nazi war crimes in France - Wikipediathirdly your cities weren’t destroyed, your people weren’t killed.
You "think" so?The answers on this site only confirm my opinion about the Germans.
This site is unpolitical, but I guess you wont find many users of this forum voting for any right-wing party. I've been to St. Petersburg in 2016 for a week. Besides visiting sights like the Eremitage, Newski Prospekt or Peter and Paul Fortress, of course I went to the Museum of the Siege of Leningrad. I took a friend who was with me in Petersburg there too. He's a tiler and not so deeply interested in history. We both knew about the siege, but he didn't realise how long and cruel it was before being to that museum.
This friend's mother is from Greece. One of my grandfathers was fighting against Nazi-Germany. He was an American GI and met my grandma briefly after the war. But we are both Germans, this is German reality. I would really appreciate if you reconsider some of your attitudes towards "the Germans". Hate is a bad friend.
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