F
FranzJunker
Gast
Look at the photos ( 1945) of Warsaw and Stalingrad, and then look at Paris. Do you see the difference?
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You "think" so?
I hope not, because in such case it wouldn't be of any use talking to you.
Although what we are talking about, in Germany they do not even remember about the blockade of Leningrad, in which 600 thousand died.
I mean more the media, articles in newspapers, discussions in historical programs. Unfortunately, there is almost no such thing, only the Holocaust.
Some articles about the siege of Leningrad:
Zweiter Weltkrieg: Warum Leningrad belagert und nicht erobert wurde - WELT
Belagerung Leningrads: Wie Hunger die Menschen deformierte - WELT
Vernichtung durch Hunger - Die Leningrader Blockade | MDR.DE
872 Tage Hunger, eine Million Tote – 1941 begann die Blockade von Leningrad
75 Jahre Ende der Belagerung Leningrads - "Russland sieht sich immer noch als Kriegsheld" (Archiv)
Leningrad: Die Stadt, die dem Hunger trotzte | DW | 27.01.2019
Eine Überlebende aus Leningrad | DW | 27.01.2014
And of couse also in the Geschichtsforum:
Leningrader Belagerung 1941/44
Kriegstote der Sowjetunion
Leningradblockade 1941-44
"France and Germany have shown how international reconciliation works. Both nations are close friends today." - with all due respect, this is not a very correct comparison. France quickly lost, surrendered, in fact did not take part in the Second World War. The destruction and damage caused by Germany to the USSR is not comparable to what France lost. It is easy to forgive and forget when you first lost, secondly you didn’t put up resistance, thirdly your cities weren’t destroyed, your people weren’t killed.
Now type in a search engine and see how many articles about the Holocaust. The fact that the Welt newspaper posts material about the USSR once a year does not mean that this aspect of the war is discussed in Germany.
But that doesn't mean that there was no resistance in France or that France " in fact did not take part in WW2". France joined WW2 when the Soviet Union was still allied with Nazi-Germany. I don't get your point. Do you want to make a ranking which country suffered most from WW2? That would be the Soviet Union no doubt. They had most casualties - civilians and military. You can read that in every history book for schoolkids in Germany. But that doesn't mean that other countries didn't suffer as well.Look at the photos ( 1945) of Warsaw and Stalingrad, and then look at Paris. Do you see the difference?
What else does it mean?The fact that the Welt newspaper posts material about the USSR once a year does not mean that this aspect of the war is discussed in Germany.
Why do you want to compare war crimes with a genocide?Now type in a search engine and see how many articles about the Holocaust.
But that doesn't mean that there was no resistance in France or that France " in fact did not take part in WW2". France joined WW2 when the Soviet Union was still allied with Nazi-Germany. I don't get your point. Do you want to make a ranking which country suffered most from WW2? That would be the Soviet Union no doubt. They had most casualties - civilians and military. You can read that in every history book for schoolkids in Germany. But that doesn't mean that other countries didn't suffer as well.
What else does it mean?
Why do you want to compare war crimes with a genocide?
Time for international understanding and reconciliation.
Auch hier bin ich durchaus deiner Meinung. Und wir können stolz darauf sein. Trotzdem auch hier ein Aber: Wir sollten nicht selbstgefällig werden, sondern selbstkritisch bleiben. Und es gibt ja nun auch in unserem Land immer wieder Leute, die gewisse Kapitel der Geschichte am liebsten abschließen würden.In all honesty, Germany doesn't need any tutoring to reflect critically on its own past.
But in effect you do. Point 3 of this same Posting.1) I don’t want to compare anyone.
Come on, this is demagogic. You are talking about sexist crimes after the German occupation of France against women, who for whatever reason had relationsships with German occupiers. Not about resistance.I don’t care about France at all. Its resistance is very well described in many sources. Especially mentioned is the fact how women who slept with the Nazis were shaved bald and publicly branded. Wow !
Why do Germans only remember the Holocaust? Millions of Soviet prisoners of war and civilians were killed and tortured in the camps. Did the Germans and Austrian Germans forget about it?
El Quijote already answered you.
2) Read above, maybe you will understand
3) Good. Isn't the mass destruction of the Slavs in Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Belarus genocidal? Count how many millions of Slavs were killed (not military, but civilians), it is quite comparable to how many Jews died.
The Nazi's intention was not to kill all Slavs. They just didn't care if they died. That was inhuman, it was very often a war crime, but no genocide.
"Während Völkermord die Zerstörung bestimmter abschließend aufgezählter Gruppen (nationale, ethnische, rassische und religiöse Gruppen) voraussetzt, können Verbrechen gegen die Menschlichkeit gegen jede Zivilbevölkerung begangen werden." wikiDas ist so eine Sache. Also im Grunde genommen ist es ja nicht erst dann ein Genozid, wenn der Plan besteht, eine bestimmte Bevölkerung vollends auszurotten.
Grundsätzlich bin ich mit dir in dieser Frage einer Meinung. Nur sehe ich da durchaus ein kleines Problem. Wir als Angehörige der Nation, die damals fast ganz Europa mit Gewalt überzogen hat, können schwerlich von jemandem, dessen halbe Familie damals ums Leben gebracht wurde, verlangen, dass derjenige versöhnlich Dtld. gegenüber gestimmt ist. Er oder sie muss allerdings eingestehen, dass wir als Nachgeborene nicht in die Verantwortung für die Verbrechen genommen werden können.
Auch hier bin ich durchaus deiner Meinung. Und wir können stolz darauf sein. Trotzdem auch hier ein Aber: Wir sollten nicht selbstgefällig werden, sondern selbstkritisch bleiben. Und es gibt ja nun auch in unserem Land immer wieder Leute, die gewisse Kapitel der Geschichte am liebsten abschließen würden.
1) I don’t want to compare anyone. I don’t care about France at all. Its resistance is very well described in many sources. Especially mentioned is the fact how women who slept with the Nazis were shaved bald and publicly branded. Wow ! It is very courageous for the French men to do this, it would be better if they fought the Germans in this way than with their own women. Well, okay, I'm not an enemy of France, I really like this country, culture, modern French. You just do not need to overestimate their role in the Second World War (again, sources will confirm this, you can find a lot of them on the Internet). At the same time, I am glad that the Nazis did not destroy the beautiful ones. beautiful French cities.
2) Read above, maybe you will understand
3) Good. Isn't the mass destruction of the Slavs in Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Belarus genocidal? Count how many millions of Slavs were killed (not military, but civilians), it is quite comparable to how many Jews died.
This is a German-speaking forum, you got your answers in English. German postings were posting between German members. Not everyone in this forum speaks fluently English. There’s no secret, you are free to use a translator - there are several translators of intermediate and good quality free on the web.1) In general, of course, it is very "nice and respectful" to correspond with each other in German in a discussion where at least one person does not know German. Well, this is so, by the way. Do whatever you want
This is a German-speaking forum, you got your answers in English. German postings were posting between German members. Not everyone in this forum speaks fluently English. There’s no secret, you are free to use a translator - there are several translators of intermediate and good quality free on the web.
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